Contrary to common belief, neither the Bible nor the Watchtower condemns homosexuality. They do condemn the practice of fornication.
Roger Kirkpatrick
JoinedPosts by Roger Kirkpatrick
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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86
Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?
by minimus inof course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?
i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.
they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Over the years, the Watchtower published letters from elders, ministerial servants and other Witnesses in good standing who admitted having to strenuously fight their homosexual urges, most of whom were married to women, which begs the question, Do heterosexuals commonly have to fight homosexual urges?
In 1983, the Watchtower explained that the term homosexual could appropriately be applied to those who felt same sex attraction even if they never acted on such feelings. Of course, many ignorant elders held to the view that a homosexual was only one practicing homosexual fornication. Yet, a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex is considered heterosexual even if, for whatever reason, one chooses to remain single and celibate. So, a man once told a Witness that he would love to be a JW but he was homosexual and homosexuals could not become JWs. The Witness told the man that he might be surprised how many JWs are homosexual.
I urge anyone who disagrees with my comments to watch the excellent British film, "Victim," starring Dirk Bogarde, the complete version of which can be viewed on YouTube. An attorney with political ambitions is gay, yet married to the woman he loves. He plans to draw out and expose someone who is blackmailing homosexuals throughout the city. (Prior to 1960, homosexuals in Britain were imprisoned.) In so doing, he becomes a victim of the blackmailer. In a pivotal scene, he is advised by a group of victims to simply pay the blackmailer. Explaining why he is the one best qualified to draw out the blackmailer, he tells the group, "I share your instincts, but I have never acted on them!"
It is a very enlightening film and well illustrates the Watchtower's current view of homosexuality.
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An Active JW Sister Modelling For Me
by pale.emperor insince leaving the borg i jumped both feet first into classes i've always wanted to do but was never "allowed" to.
two of which are life drawing and photography.
i've been studying for almost two years now and have seen more nude men and women in our classes than i care to remember.. today in the photography studio i was working in with three others (two women, one man) we were told we had a new person modelling for us.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
My sister-in-law in Abilene, Texas, was a regular pioneer, married to the PO, yet she was in an art group which met every Monday night called the Dirty Drawers. They often had nude models.
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Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
by Roger Kirkpatrick in[please feel free to share.].
forced to choose between beliefs and family.
“no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” that statement appeared in an article entitled “is it wrong to change your religion?” in the july 2009 awake magazine, published and distributed widely by jehovah’s witnesses.. nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@BluesBrother, for relevant documentation relating to that June 1, 1991, Watchtower, see the Facebook page "Jehovah's Witnesses and the United Nations."
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Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
by Roger Kirkpatrick in[please feel free to share.].
forced to choose between beliefs and family.
“no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” that statement appeared in an article entitled “is it wrong to change your religion?” in the july 2009 awake magazine, published and distributed widely by jehovah’s witnesses.. nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
[Please feel free to share.]
Forced to Choose Between Beliefs and Family
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” That statement appeared in an article entitled “Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake magazine, published and distributed widely by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Nearly everyone reading that statement would consider it to be mere common sense. However, to a Jehovah’s Witness, that statement only applies to those changing religions to become a Jehovah's Witness, not to those who leave the Witnesses for conscientious reasons.
That same Awake article continued: “Does study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No. In fact, the Bible encourages a husband and wife who practice different religions to remain together as a family.” Yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses who voluntarily leave the religion for conscientious reasons are often divorced by their mates who remain in the religion. When I resigned as a Witness in 2015, my wife of 43 years divorced me.
It has been said that the Jehovah’s Witness religion is like the Eagles’ Hotel California where “you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.” An individual Witness can “check out,” as it were, by becoming inactive, ceasing to attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall and not actively preaching, required activities for active Witnesses. However, if at any age one chooses to “leave” by voluntarily resigning from the religion for conscientious reasons, one is ostracized and shunned by family and friends who remain in the religion. Such treatment of ex-Witnesses is mandated by the Watchtower Society, the legal organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and anyone failing to obey that directive is subject to the same treatment. Many observers–evidently including the Russian government–view this common practice by Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a violation of basic human rights.
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they alone are God’s organization on earth today, and their actions over past decades suggest that they consider themselves to be an entitled religion, exempt from the judgments they presumptuously impose on other religions. For example, the article “Are You Also Excommunicated?” in the January 8, 1947, Awake magazine criticized the Catholic Church’s practice of excommunicating those who violate Church laws, stating that the practice has no basis in scripture and is of pagan origin. However, just five years later, in 1952, the Watchtower Society embraced a more severe form of excommunication called disfellowshiping. Unlike excommunication, disfellowshiping requires that morally upright persons who leave the Witnesses for conscientious reasons be completely shunned and viewed as dead by family and friends who remain Witnesses.
Similarly, the article “Their Refuge–A Lie!” in the June 1, 1991, Watchtower denounced as apostate other religions specifically for being accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations (NGO). However, before 1991 ended, the Watchtower Society had also become accredited to the UN as an NGO. While publicly denouncing the UN as the Devil’s visible organization, the Watchtower Society served essentially as publicity agents for the UN and served in that capacity for the next ten years, reapplying each year for accreditation, until the double standard was exposed in an expose by the Guardian newspaper in October 2001.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught that it is their God-given responsibility to expose religious error and hypocrisy wherever they find it. They often visit their neighbors–uninvited–and warn them to leave their Babylonish false religions or face destruction by God at Armageddon. They believe that failure to render such warning makes one blood-guilty before God. Yet, Witnesses who openly challenge unscriptural Watchtower teachings and practices are routinely disfellowshiped and branded as mentally diseased apostates.
It's been said that when a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to influence how others view you. If only in spirit, Jehovah’s Witnesses closely resemble the Islamic State (ISIS) which literally kills those whom it views as infidels.
President Barack Obama stated, “We must work together to decisively and unequivocally reject hateful ideologies, teachings and practices that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect and human dignity.”
In his book, “Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief,” Lawrence Wright wrote: “People have the right to believe whatever they choose. But it is a different matter to use the protections afforded a religion by the First Amendment to falsify history, to propagate forgeries, and to cover up human-rights abuses.”
Russia recently banned Jehovah’s Witnesses as an extremist religion which threatens human rights and destroys families. I believe that any religious organization which suppresses truth, or manufactures and propagates its own truth, is an oppressive and harmful cult. Furthermore, I believe that any religious organization which violates the basic human rights of its members–such as requiring families to shun members who leave for conscientious reasons–should have its tax-exempt status revoked.
Roger Kirkpatrick
Texas Hill Country
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JWs shunning other active JWs
by Roger Kirkpatrick inhow many others have noticed how common it is for active jws to ostracize and shun other active jws?
as far back as i can recall, jws have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend.
but, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
I knew a very devout "sister" who left a religion in order to become a JW. Sometime after her baptism, she began partaking of the memorial emblems, and she was immediately ostracized and virtually shunned--not at the KH, but socially. She was shunned by her former church and now by JWs. Just terrible!
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JWs shunning other active JWs
by Roger Kirkpatrick inhow many others have noticed how common it is for active jws to ostracize and shun other active jws?
as far back as i can recall, jws have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend.
but, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
How many others have noticed how common it is for active JWs to ostracize and shun other active JWs? As far back as I can recall, JWs have had an ongoing problem with cliques within congregations, and special needs talks would be given from time to time to address that trend. But, it seems to me that the practice has become even more pronounced with entire congregations actively shunning other congregations. My older brother--who is an elder--and our younger sister (a devout JW) actively shun one another. I have spoken to other ex-JWs who have commented that their active JW relatives have not spoken to one another for years, even decades. It would appear that, once one begins the practice of shunning, no one is exempt as a target. Before I officially disassociated, I commented on a JW email discussion group that I had been in seven different congregations in my lifetime. Each congregation did things differently from the others, and--without exception--each congregation felt it was the only one doing things correctly. A retired CO who was in that email group responded that I didn't realize just how accurate my observation was! I think it all begins with judging other individuals, then judging other congregations, and it just snowballs until it gets out of control. I also think COs have a lot to do with stirring up contentions between congregations. I'm interested in the observations of others--especially former elders--on this subject. Thanks!
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My disassociation story
by Roger Kirkpatrick infollowing is a summary of events leading up to my decision to disassociate from jehovah's witnesses and the unforeseen results of that decision.. a young man named joel engardio produced a documentary about jehovah's witnesses called "knocking" which aired nationally on pbs.
i purchased the dvd from joel before it was even released and we exchanged emails.
joel had been raised by his jw mother and had been active in jw activities during his adolescence, but he was never baptized as a jw.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
Following is a summary of events leading up to my decision to disassociate from Jehovah's Witnesses and the unforeseen results of that decision.
A young man named Joel Engardio produced a documentary about Jehovah's Witnesses called "Knocking" which aired nationally on PBS. I purchased the DVD from Joel before it was even released and we exchanged emails. Joel had been raised by his JW mother and had been active in JW activities during his adolescence, but he was never baptized as a JW. He told me that he realized from an early age that he was a homosexual. He said he would love to be a JW but that homosexuals cannot become JWs. I replied to him, "You might be surprised how many JWs are homosexual but who follow the scriptural admonition to flee from fornication, the same as unmarried heterosexuals."
I had learned that the terms heterosexual and homosexual were coined in the nineteenth century and primarily denoted orientation, or sexual ORIENTATION, as opposed to behavior. Many dictionaries list the primary definition of both terms as denoting sexual DESIRE regardless of whether such desire is acted upon. (Similarly, dictionaries define an alcoholic as one having an unnatural desire for alcohol, and many who consider themselves to be alcoholics abstain from imbibing alcohol altogether.)
I related my conversation with Joel in an assigned talk on the Theocratic Ministry School in my local Kingdom Hall since it was relevant to the theme I had been assigned to discuss. One elder was upset by my suggestion that many JWs are homosexuals who remain scripturally chaste, whereas the Presiding Overseer (my brother-in-law, along with his regular pioneer wife) assured me that I had spoken correctly. The offended elder persuaded the rest of the elder body that I had expressed a personal opinion which conflicted with published Watchtower teaching. No correction of my comment was ever made by the elders, as is normal when an unapproved viewpoint is expressed from a Kingdom Hall platform. The Presiding Overseer never informed me of his change of opinion.
Two elders were assigned to speak with me regarding my views on homosexuality, and they made it clear that they held the view that one is homosexual only if one practices homosexual behavior. The congregation was never aware of this controversy, and no one else had been offended by my comments. The elder body asked me to put my reasoning in a letter to the Watchtower Branch office, and they sent a cover letter stating the position of the elder body. (Keep in mind, this was a non-doctrinal issue.) The Branch office responded, referencing the 1983 Watchtower article which provided the basis for the comment I had made in my talk. One elder told me that when they read the Branch's letter, he commented to the other elders that the Branch had vindicated me. Yet the elder body decided to reject the Branch's letter (which I learned local elder bodies are at liberty to do regarding non-doctrinal issues), and they informed me that if I persisted in expressing my view of homosexuality they would consider me to be an apostate. To say that I was stunned would be an understatement.
In retrospect, I consider that my local elders did me a favor, because that incident helped me change the way I viewed JWs, and, as Dr. Wayne Dyer used to say, "when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." When I realized I could be labeled an apostate for expressing a viewpoint which had been published in the Watchtower (and which continues to be the official Watchtower teaching to this day), I also changed the way I viewed ones who had been labeled by JWs as apostates in the past, most notably the late Raymond Franz, former member of the JW Governing Body. I purchased and read his phenomenal book, "Crisis of Conscience," and I learned just how corrupt the Watchtower organization truly is, and it is all a matter of record. No wonder JWs are forbidden to read that book and others written by former JWs.
That is when I became inactive for the final time. The problem with simply becoming an inactive JW and not officially disassociating from the organization is that one is unable to move forward in one's spiritual journey. If an inactive JW seeks spiritual fellowship outside the Watchtower organization, one is subject to being disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy. Even after five years of being inactive, my Facebook posts were scrutinized by my local elders, and I was visited by two elders when I posted a Watchtower article which claimed JWs were God’s prophet today. I was cautioned about posting anything which, in the words of those elders, brought "reproach on the organization." That is when I decided to write my letter of disassociation.
I had learned that after a 1991 Watchtower article denounced as apostate religious organizations which had become accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations, the Watchtower Society also became accredited to the UN as an NGO from 1992 until 2001, and withdrew its membership only after the Guardian newspaper published an expose. My disassociation letter made it clear that my conscience would no longer permit me to be associated with a religion which, by its own standards, had become an apostate religious organization.
My wife of 42 years had been okay with my simply being inactive, as I had been inactive for years at a time throughout our marriage. Yet, when I officially disassociated, her attitude toward me immediately changed, and she soon informed me that she intended to divorce me. Subsequently, she consulted a marriage counselor who had helped her best friend work through a rough period in her marriage, and my daughter and I assumed that my wife was having second thoughts about divorcing me. However, she told me that the difference was that her best friend's husband still desired to be a JW and I did not, confirming the fact that my disassociation was the cause of her seeking a divorce. While JWs are mandated by the Watchtower organization to avoid any contact with ex-JWs, neither the Bible nor the Watchtower encourage JWs to divorce or shun their mates who leave the religion. Yet, my wife intends to divorce me and to shun me because she WANTS to do so. I feel that this illustrates the destructive effect oppressive religious cults have on the thinking and reasoning abilities of their adherents. As my 36-year old son said regarding his mother's decision, "Isn't it interesting how witnesses can seem to overlook obvious scriptural principles that conflict with their ideas when they want to ease their own conscience!"
At 1 Corinthians chapter 7, verses 12, 13 and 15, the apostle Paul counsels Christians, "If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; and if a woman has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. But if the unbelieving one proceeds to depart, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under servitude under such circumstances, but God has called you to peace." Since I have not renounced my Christian faith, I wondered who, in my situation, was acting as the unbeliever. Then, a friend asked, "Well, who is the one that is ignoring scriptural counsel and leaving?" It became obvious to me at that point that, by my wife's leaving, God has called me to peace.
~ Roger Kirkpatrick
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Witnessing to two JW elders
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini was approached by two jehovah’s witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the jw .org website.
each man carried a bible and an apple ipad.
they told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the bible, and asked if i was a bible reader.
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@Pete Zahut, your point of view is as valid as anyone else's. You may be right.